Tekken Tag 2 Won't Live Up To The Original, And Here's Why

[Ariesboy88]

and the juggle system could use some toning down. maybe revert back to Tekken 3

Oh so you'd rather more damage in fewer hits just so you have a better chance to keep your feet on the ground?

Seriously though. Why? :/

lol no i didn't mean that. have Tekken 3 style juggling yet have damage done like Tekken 6 i cant see how they couldn't do that

[-speedkillz-]

Why are these fighters competing in the same clothes they did back in Tekken 1 2 and 3?

are u f*ckin crazy? all of thses characters clothes have changed, except maybe jin and heihachi! xiaoyu has a new p2 costume! law has a new p1 costume! u need to get things straight man the guy who wrote this article is a dumb4ss imo

While some characters have changed like Xiaoyou and Yohimitsu alot of the default clothing is ethier the same or a slight variation (extra patterns/colours etc) I'm talking completely different. (Jin from Tekken 3 to 4 is a good example) Of the top of my head

Jin
Kazuya
Paul
Law
Heihachi
Bruce
Lee (still looks too simillar to me but it is debatable)
King
Hwoarang (slight variations but again too simillar)
Eddy

and the juggle system could use some toning down. maybe revert back to Tekken 3

I agree but keep the damage scaling of the newer titles

[Razer]

lol no i didn't mean that. have Tekken 3 style juggling yet have damage done like Tekken 6 i cant see how they couldn't do that

So you want... tiny ass juggles, with T6BR scaling. Just learn T3/T4/whatever juggles and play it in T6. ^.~

While some characters have changed like Xiaoyou and Yohimitsu alot of the default clothing is ethier the same or a slight variation (extra patterns/colours etc)

Yes, they're called "default costumes", i.e. that's that look that we see with them all the time. Seriously it's kinda stupid to change the look over and over, or SUPER super drastically (hi Yoshimitsu n Cammy). Sorry to disagree.

[Kokoro]

And with the new customization features, they default costumes shouldn't even matter that much anymore. Also, look at most of the Street Fighter characters. They wear the same clothes all the time.

[Tofma]

1.you say BR to TTT2 isnt much of a change? well then again was tag1 really all that different from 3 other than being tag? not really...sure there was the returning chars but tag2 has that too

2.BR is not juggle heavy. that already proves whoever wrote that article doesnt know a **** about FG's. Ever heard of FUC or HNK? those games are combo-heavy. this guy obviously has 0 experience with anything other than tekken. and he doesnt know a thing even about that.

3.facial/clothes damage wont accomplish anything. who the F buy's a game for that? same applies to changing the art style.

4.make the game easier? WTF!??? srsly?? BR is already mad easy. go try GG and then tell me this games too hard.

*sigh...*

and thats why you dont read FG related articles from sites that arent forums dedicated to the game in question. because they're pretty much guaranteed to be written by random buttonmashing causals that dont know anything about FG's and havent played anything but 1 series (and even that just causally). they're always filled with BS.

[-speedkillz-]

1.you say BR to TTT2 isnt much of a change? well then again was tag1 really all that different from 3 other than being tag? not really...sure there was the returning chars but tag2 has that too

In terms of gameplay I agree with you but TTT1 had the stigma of being on a Next Gen console + all the old characters returning ive mentioned this several times now

2.BR is not juggle heavy. that already proves whoever wrote that article doesnt know a **** about FG's. Ever heard of FUC or HNK? those games are combo-heavy. this guy obviously has 0 experience with anything other than tekken. and he doesnt know a thing even about that.

He's means in comparison to the other games in the series Tekken 5 , 6 and TTT2 are very combo heavy in comparison to Tekken 2 or 4 lets say

3.facial/clothes damage wont accomplish anything. who the F buy's a game for that? same applies to changing the art style.

Plenty of people buy games for graphics especially casuals , Mortal Kombat 2011 has done just that and that game is creating a buzz it looks incredible graphics and visual fidility go ALONG WAY

4.make the game easier? WTF!??? srsly?? BR is already mad easy. go try GG and then tell me this games too hard.

Guilty Gear is much easier then this game my friend and his sisters always had a blast on that game Tekken 6 BR not so much it's not very noob friendly (accessible).

and thats why you dont read FG related articles from sites that arent forums dedicated to the game in question. because they're pretty much guaranteed to be written by random buttonmashing causals that dont know anything about FG's and havent played anything but 1 series (and even that just causally). they're always filled with BS.

I do I don't discriminate like you I take and listen to everyones opinion casual or expert because both are going to be buying the game and contributing to the community

And with the new customization features, they default costumes shouldn't even matter that much anymore. Also, look at most of the Street Fighter characters. They wear the same clothes all the time.

[/quote]

True this was one of my more minor issues. As for SF you are abosultely right but atleast SF4/SSF4 changed it's art style/direction

[Tofma]

In terms of gameplay I agree with you but TTT1 had the stigma of being on a Next Gen console + all the old characters returning ive mentioned this several times now

and that makes it a better game? riiiiight....

He's means in comparison to the other games in the series Tekken 5 , 6 and TTT2 are very combo heavy in comparison to Tekken 2 or 4 lets say

nope. juggle's are longer yes. but that doesnt make it combo heavy. First of all standing dmg was raised by 20% while juggle scaling was raised. for example combos used to scale 70% for every hit. now only a low wall-hit will scale 70%.

also T2 has retarded combos. try this with heihachi
1 1 df12 1 12 4~3

yes. that a 100+ dmg juggle off a jab. not combo heavy at all right?

Guilty Gear is much easier then this game my friend and his sisters always had a blast on that game Tekken 6 BR not so much it's not very noob friendly (accessible).

riiiight. idk what you've been takin but...

1.Guilty Gear has no buffer window (meaning you really have to time everything. whereas in tekken you can say...input your block punisher before the blockstun ends and you'll still get the punisher)
2.Force roman cancels. nuff said

just try to do a simple johnny staple air-combo. if you think tekkens hard then i guarantee you will drop it every single time.

[Keita]

Guilty Gear is much easier then this game my friend and his sisters always had a blast on that game Tekken 6 BR not so much it's not very noob friendly (accessible).

Guilty Gear is much easier!

Guilty Gear easy? can you do these combos? Guilty Gear is more hardcore than Tekken 6 BR is.

[mayahabee]

Guilty Gear is much easier then this game my friend and his sisters always had a blast on that game Tekken 6 BR not so much it's not very noob friendly (accessible).

I stopped playing GG because Tekken is easier for me to deal damages and I can't do a decent combo on GG lol.

[-speedkillz-]

and that makes it a better game? riiiiight....

It makes the game feel fresher and won't get boring as quick theres not much different going on here then in Tekken 6 and before any mentions Tekken 3 being like Tekken Tag 1. TT1 had the return of all the characters from Tekken2 and it was a next gen console

nope. juggle's are longer yes. but that doesnt make it combo heavy. First of all standing dmg was raised by 20% while juggle scaling was raised. for example combos used to scale 70% for every hit. now only a low wall-hit will scale 70%.

also T2 has retarded combos. try this with heihachi
1 1 df12 1 12 4~3

yes. that a 100+ dmg juggle off a jab. not combo heavy at all right?

I am not talking damage here I'm talking purely asthetics the ability to juggle and combo being able to keep your opponent in mid-air slamming your opponent to the ground then picking them back up in the air again by hitting their leg or whatever it just kinda starts to look abit retarded to me.

The damage scailing system is good though no complaints there....

riiiight. idk what you've been takin but...

1.Guilty Gear has no buffer window (meaning you really have to time everything. whereas in tekken you can say...input your block punisher before the blockstun ends and you'll still get the punisher)
2.Force roman cancels. nuff said

The game is more accessible and is easier to pick up and play for newbies , i'm talking about the first GG btw

[Kicky]

i think tekken has reached a level where it doesn't need to do any drastic change (from all aspects). just some minor tweaks here and there. maybe tekken kept changing a bit in versions from 1 to 5. but i think 5 was when it found its style.

for example, as an artist, when i find my style, something i am comfortable with, i should try making it better and keep working on it. but going for a new style everyday, won't get me anywhere.

as for the graphical details you're talking about. what makes you think Harada and his team never though about that?
but there could be more than one reason they're not present.

[Evil_Gotenks]

As someone said earlier... if its not broke, don't fix it. tekken's gameplay and style is working for them, changing it is more than likely gonna end badly for them rather than good. Look at T4, it changed so much and was bad that the hardcore players moved back to TTT.

And lol at thinkin TTT was so fresh and lived long just because it had returnin characters and was on a next gen console. The returnin characters may have helped, but it wasn't the only thing that made people keep playing it. And the next gen console aspect had nothin to do with it what so ever.

That article is a piece of crap to put it nicely. the only thing i'd agree on would be improving the graphics to include that water/wind thing, but that wouldn't matter really and it definitely wouldn't make the game live longer... TT2 looks amazing as it is already.

[-speedkillz-]

i think tekken has reached a level where it doesn't need to do any drastic change (from all aspects). just some minor tweaks here and there. maybe tekken kept changing a bit in versions from 1 to 5. but i think 5 was when it found its style.

I disagree, there are always things you can do to make a game feel fresh wether its art design/style. Gameplay style/engine
soundtrack my suggestions in the first post were just a few of MANY possibilities its not just about changing the core gameplay there are many things you can do while keeping the same gameplay style in tact

for example, as an artist, when i find my style, something i am comfortable with, i should try making it better and keep working on it. but going for a new style everyday, won't get me anywhere.

I concur

as for the graphical details you're talking about. what makes you think Harada and his team never though about that?
but there could be more than one reason they're not present.

Good point sir, I am hoping Tekken 7 pleseantly surprises me

As someone said earlier... if its not broke, don't fix it. tekken's gameplay and style is working for them, changing it is more than likely gonna end badly for them rather than good. Look at T4, it changed so much and was bad that the hardcore players moved back to TTT.

Tekken 3's gameplay system was also working for them but they decided to change it in Tekken 4 then again in Tekken 5 which was completely different from BOTH it's predecessors i'll certaintly agree doing it is a gamble but it isn't the end of the world. The only time "change" was really bad for the Tekken series was Tekken 4 which I personally think is an underrated game.

The returnin characters may have helped, but it wasn't the only thing that made people keep playing it. And the next gen console aspect had nothin to do with it what so ever.

Riiiiighhtttt because many gamers especially casuals never buy games because of graphics and visuals , because in 1999 Tekken Tag Tournament didn't look amazing compared to anything seen on the PS1/N64 because the hype and awe of a next generation console means nothing

I agree on improving the graphics to include that water/wind thing, but that wouldn't matter really and it definitely wouldn't make the game live longer

That was my idea actually


Oh and once again heres hoping Tekken 7 looks something like this:

[Evil_Gotenks]

i think tekken has reached a level where it doesn't need to do any drastic change (from all aspects). just some minor tweaks here and there. maybe tekken kept changing a bit in versions from 1 to 5. but i think 5 was when it found its style.

I disagree, there are always things you can do to make a game feel fresh wether its art design/style. Gameplay style/engine
soundtrack my suggestions in the first post were just a few of MANY possibilities its not just about changing the core gameplay there are many things you can do while keeping the same gameplay style in tact

Just because u can do something to make a game fresh doesn't mean u should... So what if TT2 plays almost identical to T6, people enjo it and will still play it. the game is gonna be different (or fresh) enough with the tag elements.

As someone said earlier... if its not broke, don't fix it. tekken's gameplay and style is working for them, changing it is more than likely gonna end badly for them rather than good. Look at T4, it changed so much and was bad that the hardcore players moved back to TTT.

Tekken 3's gameplay system was also working for them but they decided to change it in Tekken 4 then again in Tekken 5 which was completely different from BOTH it's predecessors i'll certaintly agree doing it is a gamble but it isn't the end of the world. The only time "change" was really bad for the Tekken series was Tekken 4 which I personally think is an underrated game.

T5 was different from T3 and T4, but it took a step back from the changes of T4 and kinda went back in the direction of T3, giving a nice mix of both games whilst adding in a few things of its own... T5 was a necessary change, and change had to happen because of the mess that was T4. T4 was a good game for a casual level, but tekken relies on the hardcore scene for the long run, so they needed to make the change.

The returnin characters may have helped, but it wasn't the only thing that made people keep playing it. And the next gen console aspect had nothin to do with it what so ever.

Riiiiighhtttt because many gamers especially casuals never buy games because of graphics and visuals , because in 1999 Tekken Tag Tournament didn't look amazing compared to anything seen on the PS1/N64 because the hype and awe of a next generation console means nothing

People may buy games for visuals and graphics, but its not the visuals and graphics that keep the person playing, its the gameplay. Graphics help lure people in (especially casuals), but its the gameplay that makes them stay. Once again, the next-gen console part had nothing to do with how well TTT was received.

[-speedkillz-]

I just want to say thanks for the replies guys we have a good discussion going here.

Just because u can do something to make a game fresh doesn't mean u should... So what if TT2 plays almost identical to T6, people enjo it and will still play it. the game is gonna be different (or fresh) enough with the tag elements.

Though it was difficult I have accepted TTT2 to be what it is which is why I plan on playing the series again when Tekken 7 comes out

T5 was different from T3 and T4, but it took a step back from the changes of T4 and kinda went back in the direction of T3, giving a nice mix of both games whilst adding in a few things of its own... T5 was a necessary change, and change had to happen because of the mess that was T4. T4 was a good game for a casual level, but tekken relies on the hardcore scene for the long run, so they needed to make the change.

I agree, but it is undeniable that Tekken 5 had its own unique style though it did borrow a few elements from Tekken 3. I have no issue with games borrowing gameplay features and styles from past games (SF4 did this). My point is I just want something thats new, for myself and many of my friends Tekken 6 just felt far too similar to Tekken 5 and aside from the Tag feature and Jun Kazma theres not too much thats different/improved from Tekken 6

People may buy games for visuals and graphics, but its not the visuals and graphics that keep the person playing, its the gameplay. Graphics help lure people in (especially casuals), but its the gameplay that makes them stay. Once again, the next-gen console part had nothing to do with how well TTT was received.

Personally I believe it's both, visuals/presentation and gameplay are equally important they're what I feel lures people in and keeps them playing (it's a two man job in other words) why do you think people buy soundtracks from video games if its only the gameplay that matters. TTT was so well recieved because of the gameplay AND visuals/soundtrack. I can almost garauntee that almost any review at the time TTT was released heavily praised the games visuals at the time.

[Evil_Gotenks]

People may buy games for visuals and graphics, but its not the visuals and graphics that keep the person playing, its the gameplay. Graphics help lure people in (especially casuals), but its the gameplay that makes them stay. Once again, the next-gen console part had nothing to do with how well TTT was received.

Personally I believe it's both, visuals/presentation and gameplay are equally important they're what I feel lures people in and keeps them playing (it's a two man job in other words) why do you think people buy soundtracks from video games if its only the gameplay that matters. TTT was so well recieved because of the gameplay AND visuals/soundtrack. I can almost garauntee that almost any review at the time TTT was released heavily praised the games visuals at the time.

They go hand in hand, but the most important aspect of replayabiltiy is the gameplay itself... Ok, it may have a nice soundtrack, but if the gameplay is horrible i won't force myself through the game just to hear the music... I'll buy the OST. Even if the gameplay is good and i love the music, i'll still buy the OST so i can listen to it without having to play the game

A good example of this is FF13. It's a very pretty game, but its gameplay isn't that great and it turned many fans of the FF series off that game. If it had great gameplay as well, am pretty sure alot more people would be willing to spend the time to plat that game. It has some good songs too (Will to Fight is one of my fav FF tracks ever) but that one song didn't keep me playing. I finished FF13 so i could say i finished it and then never touched the thing again.

PS, you should do well to remember that TTT was an arcade game first with PSX graphics...

[Melee_Sovereign]

Someone one this thread said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", and they're spot on correct. Change is a good thing, but it's not always necessary. Things shouldn't be changed in areas that don't need it.

And it sounds like the person who wrote the article is another one of those people who can't be satisfied. Tekken 6 is a significant change from Tekken 5. It is much more juggle oriented, but now this cat is complaining about long juggles. He wanted change, but he doesn't like what was changed. As I said before, people should really consider what most fans want.

Where Tekken does need change is making each character less generic, but then again, I don't even know how much people actually care about that either.

I do agree about graphics. I'm someone who cares about graphics. I just don't think that ****'s gonna happen, therefor, I don't think it's worth mentioning. Namco knew they were making Tekken 6 have bad graphics. The arcade version had the best graphics. It ran at 720p and had better textures than any other version. But, nooooooo..... let's make both console versions of the game equal and tone down the resolution to 5 something p and make the game look like crap! AFAIK, this is the first time an arcade Tekken game looked better than it's console version.

They knew they could've had good graphics for the console version.

[-speedkillz-]

They go hand in hand, but the most important aspect of replayabiltiy is the gameplay itself... Ok, it may have a nice soundtrack, but if the gameplay is horrible i won't force myself through the game just to hear the music... I'll buy the OST. Even if the gameplay is good and i love the music, i'll still buy the OST so i can listen to it without having to play the game

I agree, of course if the gameplay is horrible I won't touch it ethier but if the visuals and presentation are bad i'll be put off by it equally as much.

A good example of this is FF13. It's a very pretty game, but its gameplay isn't that great and it turned many fans of the FF series off that game. If it had great gameplay as well, am pretty sure alot more people would be willing to spend the time to plat that game. It has some good songs too (Will to Fight is one of my fav FF tracks ever) but that one song didn't keep me playing. I finished FF13 so i could say i finished it and then never touched the thing again

I agree that game was an absolute disgrace, again you're correct better gameplay would of made the game far superior but the game was still able to carry itself because it's incredible visuals. Just imagine if FF13 had it's visuals with the gameplay of FF7 or FF10.

I still strongly stand that it's a two man job and I think you agree with me

PS, you should do well to remember that TTT was an arcade game first with PSX graphics...

I do, and let me ask which game is better? people who say graphics, presentation and visual beauty dont matter (I'm not accusing you of this Gotenks) are just kidding themselves imo.

Someone one this thread said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", and they're spot on correct. Change is a good thing, but it's not always necessary. Things shouldn't be changed in areas that don't need it.

I can't agree with this because then why did Tekken 3 drastically change from Tekken 1 and 2. Why did Tekken 4 drastically change from 3 and Tag? wasn't Tekken 3 pretty much considered a great, almost perfect game at the time? (It currently holds the highest Meta critic score) so according to you it shouldn't have never changed but it still changed in Tekken 4 then guess what Tekken 5 came along and changed things again. The CORE gameplay is still Tekken but those titles presented enough change to keep things FRESH.

And it sounds like the person who wrote the article is another one of those people who can't be satisfied. Tekken 6 is a significant change from Tekken 5. It is much more juggle oriented, but now this cat is complaining about long juggles. He wanted change, but he doesn't like what was changed. As I said before, people should really consider what myst fans diwant.

I completely disagree with this 100% Tekken 6 was TOO simillar to Tekken 5 it's simply just a variation of it's gameplay engine with bounding to have more juggles theres a few new animations here and there which i think look quite bad. The art style and direction looks to simillar to Tekken 5 also, its basically Tekken 5 Next Gen as like to call it. I'm basically burnt out on this gameplay style and art direction/style

Where Tekken does need change is making each character less generic, but then again, I don't even know how much people actually care about that either.

I agree i'd love to see this myself

I do agree about graphics. I'm someone who cares about graphics. I just don't think that ****'s gonna happen, therefor, I don't think it's worth mentioning. Namco knew they were making Tekken 6 have bad graphics. The arcade version had the best graphics. It ran at 720p and had better textures than any other version. But, nooooooo..... let's make both console versions of the game equal and tone down the resolution to 5 something p and make the game look like crap! AFAIK, this is the first time an arcade Tekken game looked better than it's console version.

[/quote]

I cried too....

[anarkzie]

These changes are not what the majority of the fans want If in the next game they replace the cast with a new "fresh" bunch of fighters then the game that follows that will just bring back all the old guys again after everyone complians(which will happen). Then the cast will be like almost 100 strong, as no matter how bad the new guys maybe they will still get there own fans, who will get all p*ss off if the new guys arn't in future installments
aswell.
I personally would prefer them not to take damage as the fights go on(A photo-realistic Murduk smashing Nina's face into the floor and blood gashing out is not something I want to see really) but I do like the idea of cloths getting wet and stuff but at the same time its not a deal breaker and it would not make me want to buy the game if I did not already want it.
I also really hope that Jin does not have any children as IMO Its just lazy story writing.

[Evil_Gotenks]

They go hand in hand, but the most important aspect of replayabiltiy is the gameplay itself... Ok, it may have a nice soundtrack, but if the gameplay is horrible i won't force myself through the game just to hear the music... I'll buy the OST. Even if the gameplay is good and i love the music, i'll still buy the OST so i can listen to it without having to play the game

I agree, of course if the gameplay is horrible I won't touch it ethier but if the visuals and presentation are bad i'll be put off by it equally as much.

Well thats for u to say... people still play the psx classics today even with their graphics... they may have been good at the time, but in today's terms they'd be horrible. U trying to tell me u still don't play any ps1/ps2 games? How about sega mega drive or snes games?

PS, you should do well to remember that TTT was an arcade game first with PSX graphics...

I do, and let me ask which game is better? people who say graphics, presentation and visual beauty dont matter (I'm not accusing you of this Gotenks) are just kidding themselves imo.

On a casual level, the ps2 version is better just for the better graphics and such. I can't deny that. But on the hardcore level, they r both as good as each other (with the minor exception of unknown being playable only in the ps2 version).

Someone one this thread said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", and they're spot on correct. Change is a good thing, but it's not always necessary. Things shouldn't be changed in areas that don't need it.

I can't agree with this because then why did Tekken 3 drastically change from Tekken 1 and 2. Why did Tekken 4 drastically change from 3 and Tag? wasn't Tekken 3 pretty much considered a great, almost perfect game at the time? (It currently holds the highest Meta critic score) so according to you it shouldn't have never changed but it still changed in Tekken 4 then guess what Tekken 5 came along and changed things again. The CORE gameplay is still Tekken but those titles presented enough change to keep things FRESH.

I think Tekken was looking to introduce walls at the time of T3, one early tech vid of T3 shows Jin and Paul fighting in what looks Pauls stage but within a small area surrounded by a crowd of people (think T4's underground stage). They may not have been able to do what they were intending to do and had to cut the idea out, but tried again for T4.



According to the comments, it turns out it was part of a tech demo for the ps2. But still... it shows Namco was lookin to bring walls into Tekken and they tried to do that along with other things for T4.